Author Topic: Welcome  (Read 36979 times)


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Re: Welcome
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2017, 09:42:43 AM »
I'm from Russia. The day before yesterday I installed the game. I am glad that there is a Russian language.
I am from the Republic of Sakha (Yakutia). I'm interested in the history of my Yakut people. Among the ancestors indicate the Hun and Uighur. I do not know English, so I use Google translator.

I focus on historicism. I read Gumilev's works. I remember his historical maps:

1) Map 1. Distribution tribes of Inner Asia about 700 BC

Russian version more. Лэуфань - leufan, линьху - linhu, дали - dali, сюянь - suyang, икюй - ikuy, дивань - divan, гуньжу - gongju, учжи - uhtzi.

I. In the Mist of Ages

In ancient times, the territory of China was not very similar to the modern one. It was covered by virgin forests and marshes, fed by rivers flooding in high water, vast lakes, impenetrable solonetzes, and only on the plateaus were meadows and steppes spread.

In the east, between the lower reaches of the Yellow River (Yellow River) and the Yangtze, there was a chain of shifting soils. The modern province of Hebei was a huge delta, called the "Nine Negro". Further from the seashore stretched wide lakes and swamps, and the rivers I and Huai disappeared in the swampy valley of the lower reaches of the Yangtze River. "Wild vegetation dressed the entire basin of the Weihe River, where majestic oaks grew, everywhere there were groups of cypresses and pines, tigers, snow leopards, yellow leopards, bears, buffaloes, wild boars lived in the forests;

Struggle against the rivers from time immemorial occupied a great place in the life of the Chinese people. In the dry season they were very shallow, but it was worth the rain in the mountains, as they swelled and left the banks. Having spilled, the rivers lost their current velocity and deposited sediments. One part of the ancient inhabitants of Northern China left the raging waters to the mountains, where they kept their lives hunting, while the other part entered into a decisive battle with the elements of the rivers - these were the ancestors of the Chinese. Hard-working Chinese farmers from ancient times began to build dams to save their lives and their fields from flooding. "In the territory of China, tribes of different cultures with different ancestors lived for a long time, on the lands where they lived, each tribe in the struggle against the forces of nature developed its own culture". These tribes often fought each other. According to the Chinese historical tradition, already the first of the Chinese dynasties, semi-legendary Xia, entered into a struggle with other tribes inhabiting the territory of China in the III millennium BC. These tribes were called Jiang and Di. They inhabited the wooded mountains, while the ancestors of the Chinese got lowlands. To the north, in the dry steppes, the tribes of hun-yu lived. From legends it is known that in 2600 BC. The "Yellow Emperor" undertook a campaign against them. But the main opponents of Xia were not they, but the jiang and di. In Chinese folklore, there are echoes of the struggle of the "black-headed" ancestors of the Chinese with "red-haired devils". The Chinese won a thousand-year war. They pushed the "barbarians" into the mountains, steppes and even the southern jungles, but, as we shall see below, this victory was not final. Despite successes, the kingdom of Xia possessed only the Henan area and the southwestern part of Shanxi; it was here that the nucleus of the future Chinese people was concentrated.

In 1764 BC. in China, as a result of the coup, the Shang dynasty established itself in place of the Xia dynasty, under which the foundations of ancient Chinese civilization were formed and the ancient Chinese people took shape.

Shan-Yin is the first fully historical dynasty of China. With it, the emergence of the first Chinese state. Numerous excavations restore the picture of her culture, but the political history is still dark. Clearly, Shan was already a real slaveholding state with hereditary power and aristocracy. The most important cultural achievement of this era was the invention of hieroglyphic writing, which played an extremely important role in the further history of China. Trade developed not only with those lying to the north of the Huang Hebei, trade ties reached through the northeast of China to Lake Baikal and the banks of the Angara. Of course, only goods went there, and not the Chinese themselves, who usually exchanged with the aid of tribes-intermediaries. Metal was sent to Siberia: tin, bronze, and from Siberia - green and white jade, precious furs and, possibly, slaves. So the Far Eastern center of culture developed.


In the XVIII century. BC. In North China there were two events that had enormous consequences. In 1797 the Chinese nobleman Gun-lyu fell into disgrace and fled to the west to the ghosts. After him, apparently, many supporters followed, for here he was able to build a town for himself and rule himself, separating himself from the Chinese kingdom of Xia. According to sources, Gong-luu "turned into a western jiang". However, for over 300 years of joint life, the Chinese emigrants did not finally merge with the jiang, and in 1327 their descendants with the Prince of Shan-fu led by the tsunami returned to their homeland and settled in northern Shaanxi (near the Qishan Mountain ). From this newly formed tribe, the Zhou dynasty took place. Even as a small principality, Zhou fought against the jiangs, and in 1140 - 1130 gg. BC. Prince Chan "drove the jiang from the rivers Guin and Lo" (in Gansu province) to the north.

The Jiangs were for a while tributaries to Zhou, but approximately in the X century. BC. "The steppe duties ceased and a stubborn war began." The Jiangs sought to regain their lost lands; the division of China into many principalities contributed to their advancement.

And at this very time in the steppe, adjacent to the southern outskirts of the Gobi, was a new people - the Huns. Long since there were nomadic tribes of Hanyun and Hunyu. Neither the others were Huns. In that era, the Huns did not yet exist. But after the Xia dynasty was overthrown, the son of the last Tsze-kui king, who died in exile - Shun Wei - left the northern steppes with his family and subjects. Shun Wei, according to the Chinese historical tradition, is considered the ancestor of the Huns. According to this tradition, the Huns originated from a mixture of Chinese emigrants and steppe nomadic tribes. Undoubtedly, these legendary information only very roughly reflect the historical reality. However, it would be wrong to deny them a rational grain. Although attempts have been made to reject the existence of the Xia period on the grounds that in the Shan records there are no references to the previous dynasty, but the most skeptical scholars of Chinese antiquity, such as Guo Mozhaud, and Lattimore, recognizing the legendary tales of Xia, believe that this dynasty was, that in ancient times "Xia" meant "China" and that its boundaries coincide with the boundaries of the Neolithic culture of black ceramics. Further, Lattimore notes the huge difference between the cultures of Xia and Shan and suggests even a partial synchrony of their existence. Thus, we can assume that there was a clash of two tribes and one of them won. It is even more likely that as a result of the defeat some of the defeated ones fled beyond the borders of their native country, captured by the enemy, and found refuge with neighboring tribes.

But who were these mysterious tribes Hanyun and Hunyu, with whom Shun Wei's associates mingled? Outskirts of the Gobi in ancient times, the Chinese called "the sandy country of Shasai" [17] and considered the birthplace of dinlin. According to anthropology, here at this time the European short-headed type was mated with the Mongoloid narrow-leaved; Chinese [18]. Mongoloid broad-leaved type was distributed at that time to the north of the Gobi.

We have the right to conclude that the hanyun and hunyu were descendants of the aborigines of Northern China, driven back by the "black-headed" ancestors of the Chinese into the steppe back in the 3rd millennium BC. With these tribes mixed Chinese, who came with Shun Wei, and formed the first Pruhun ethnic substratum, which became Hunnic only in the subsequent era, when the prahunnu crossed the sandy deserts. Then on the plains of Khalkha there was a new crossing, as a result of which the historical Huns arose. Until then, they were called xy, i.e. steppe nomads. So, the Huns were the first people to defeat the deserts. And for this it was necessary to have courage and perseverance.


Central Asia is surrounded by mountains from all sides. From the northwest, the powerful range of the Sayano-Altai separates it from the cold and damp forest Siberia. The desert strip (Gobi), like the sea, divides Central Asia in half, and it is not without reason that the Chinese called this desert the Hanhai Sea. Przhevalsky describes the Gobi as follows: "For weeks on end, before the eyes of the traveler, the same images are the same: those unimaginative plains, [the yellowing of the withered past year's grass], the blackish, frayed ridges of rocks, the gentle hills on the top sometimes painted silhouette of a fast-moving antelope ". In addition to antelope, Gobi - the home of wild camels, who lived there in the XIX century, and a huge number of rodents. For the ancient Chinese this desert seemed impassable.

In the south-east, the border of the Middle Asia is the Yin-shan ridge (meridional continuation of the Great Khingan) and the adjacent Liaosi mountains. On the slopes of these mountains there once grew dense forests full of game, horned and feathered. From the north, Yinshan borders on the steppe.

West of the bend of the Yellow River is the Ala-shan desert. Przhevalsky writes: "For many tens, even hundreds of kilometers, we see here naked, loose sands, always ready to strangle the traveler with his burning heat or to fill with a sand storm, they do not have a single drop of water, neither beast nor bird is seen, and dead desolation fills the soul of a man who has wandered here in terror ". From the south, the desert is closed by a high mountain system of the Nanshan Ridge. In the west lies the rich oasis of Dunhuang, and from it begins a caravan route to the Khami oasis. This way is extremely difficult. Przewalski gave a vivid description of it: "Bones of horses, mules and camels hang unceasingly on the road.There is a cloudy atmosphere filled with hot smoke, and hot whirlwinds often fly over the burning soil and far away the poles of spinning dust fly. The sun burns from sunrise to sunset, the heated soil heated to 63 °, and in the shade it was at least 35 ° C. At night there was also no coolness, but it was possible to move along this path only at night and in the early morning ". Alashansky desert, the Chinese called the "Gulf" or "Bay of the Sandy Sea" (Gobi). This sandy sea for centuries has been an impassable barrier between East and West. But this barrier did not frighten the Huns.


The events of this first period of the history of the Huns, as well as the second (from 1200 to 214 BC), did not find sufficient reflection in Chinese historiography. And it is understandable why. Mountain giangs were an intermediate link between the steppes and civilized China. They held in their hands a wide strip of foothills from the oasis of Hami in the west to Khingan in the east. Numerous tribes of them "absent-mindedly lived in mountain valleys, had their princes and elders, often gathered in a large number of genera, but could not unite". It is likely that the steppe Huns sometimes took part in the campaigns of their neighbors and only thus did the Chinese learn about their existence. Therefore, information about the Huns of the ancient period is fragmentary. The latter caused the emergence of different hypotheses that identified Huns then with Hanyun and Hunyu, then with the Shanjiangs themselves, and it was forgotten that the Huns were steppe people, and not mountain people.

In connection with all the above, a mysterious ethnonym zhun is revealed. Because of the cliche or inaccurate expression of Sima Qian, attempts have been made to identify the jungles with the Huns, but we see that everywhere in the sources the junks act together with the di, so they may be correctly interpreted by Bichurin in their translation as single people - jung-di. Moreover, there is a legend according to which the Chidi and the Quan Jung were of the same origin. The jiangs and di, apparently, differed so little from each other that the Chinese called some genera in the western jiangs. The most eastern tribe of them, who lived on the slopes of Khingan and Yinshan, was called shanjong, or mountainous jiangs. Being cut off from the bulk of their people, the mountainous zhuns merged in part with the eastern mongols - dunhu, in part - with the huns. They intensively merged with the chinese, and in the west - with the tibetans. In the latter case, they turned into the present people-the tanguts. Thus, the existence of a special race in China ceases to be a mystery: the tangut in ancient times were much more widespread than now, when they were preserved as a small ethnic island near Lake Kukunor.

This point of view differs from that expressed by European and American historians. In particular, McGovern counts the Jung and the Huns, marveling only that the ethnographic features of both do not coincide. A detailed and thorough analysis of this topic was given by Lattimore, who concludes that the zhuns and di lived inside China and were sedentary mountaineers, and not steppe nomads, ie, They are not at all hunny, but they do not say anything about their racial affiliation.

Completely ignores the jiang problem of N.N. Cheboksarov, not noticing that this deprives him of the opportunity to correctly solve the question of the ethnogenesis of the Chinese. The quotation from the "Jin Shu" (Chapter 97), which states that the Huns in the west border on the six Rong tribes, is sufficient definiteness; the distinction between these peoples is clearly emphasized.

However, all authors find it difficult to determine the difference between the jiang and di from the chinese within China and from the Huns outside it, whereas from the analysis of historical events it is clear that this difference was obvious to contemporaries. Here, the so-called "Dinlin" theory of Grumm-Grzhimailo completely solves the problem. This was a racial difference, which the ancient chinese authors could not or did not consider necessary to emphasize.


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Re: Welcome
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2017, 08:20:37 AM »
A great description of the setting at the start of the game.
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